( SNUG 10 Item 13 ) --------------------------------------------- [04/15/10]
Subject: What 238 users think of Synplicity and HAPS
THE PROBLEM GOT WORSE: Almost every time when I'd see a Synplicity bigwig,
I'd ask them how they managed to survive selling against the "free" Xilinx
and Altera tools -- not to taunt them -- but because I was genuinely curious
how they did it. (It's a difficult problem!)
But that was when Synplify was priced at around $12 K.
Now try selling to customers who see "free" all the time but with a Synopsys
sales force used to tools priced at $500,000 to $1,000,000 per license.
Read the user comments below. Bug & support gripes are normal. What's new
is they're now howling up a storm about prices and bailing, too. Not good.
Two years ago, Synopsys acquired Synplicity for $227 million. Our
thoughts on Synplicity since then are (choose ALL that applies):
1a- We buy the Synplicity FPGA tools.
: ################################# 33%
1b- We buy the Mentor FPGA tools.
: #### 4%
1c- We use the free Xilinx tools.
: ##################################### 37%
1d- We use the free Altera tools.
: ########################### 27%
2a- Synplicity is a shell of itself; was great, now dying.
: ############## 14%
2b- Joining with Synopsys is making Synplicity even better.
: ###### 6%
Comments?
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As always - tools are getting more expensive after integration into big
companies :-(
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From past experience with the free Xilinx and Actel tools couple of
years ago, free seems to be the way to go.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
1. The pricing structure per feature of Synplify is ridiculous. At
least put the Technology Viewer in regular Synplify.
2. Do not force SDC constraints on Synplify customers!!! If they want
to use them, allow them to, but don't force it!
3. Do not change Synplify.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Haha! Have you seen the prices SNPS charges? Last time I checked,
Synplify is now more expensive than it was before.
Using Xilinx and Altera. But we are also using Actel which comes
with a free version of Synplicity.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
X-tools aren't very good, but management won't pay for better ones.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We use Xilinx and Synplicity at times. I don't see any benefit to
Synplicity any more.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We were using the basic Synplify. One clock constraint allowed, no
Xilinx/Altera IP cores allowed, high price...
Although we liked the run time, that was it.
We switched to Xilinx's XST and Altera Quartus II synthesis.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
1a- We buy the Synplicity FPGA tools still!
1c- We use the free Xilinx tools.
1d- We use the free Altera tools.
Synopsys bought Synplicitly because their own FPGA synthesis tool was
rubbish. However, Synopsys is having to turn Synplify into their
flows -- that's why they ported the DesignWare over to Synplify, etc.
I suspect soon they'll modify the Synplify commands to emulate DC
commands (if they haven't done that already). Still, Synplify is
becoming more fat and more sluggish -- Mentor Graphic's Precision,
Xilinx's XST, and Altera's Quartus II are catching up.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
The tools from Altera work better than anything Synplicity ships.
Xilinx is not quite as good, but adequate. The physical stuff from
Synplicity seems to do nothing but make things worse. As best I can
determine, there is ZERO reason for Synplicity tools. This was a
*dumb* acquisition. At least Ken got rich.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I do FPGAs exclusively, but since I've been a loyal Synplify/Pro user for
10 years, I have these observations since Synopsys bought Synplicity:
a) I haven't seen any change in the tool (Synplify/Pro) itself yet.
That's good, but ... they're probably still figuring out how to muck
with it, so I'm holding my breath on this one. You know they're
going to do more to its innards than just cosmetic changes to the
color & font of "Synplify" on the GUI.
b) It's been sad to watch Synplicity get so completely absorbed into the
collective. The Synplicity URL is gone, and nary of a trace of the
name Synplicity appears on the mothership's website. I'd hoped for a
partnership more like Mentor took with their acquisition of ModelTech,
wherein the later maintains the veneer (and attitude) of a
still-quasi-independent startup.
c) The whole process of logging into SolvNet and filling out a webform
(for tech support I understand, but just to read an app note? Oy vey!)
is a pain in the arse, but to be expected of a big company that needs
automated collection of metrics to be able to measure themselves ......
but I sure do miss the informality of just firing an email to
support@synplicity.com and getting a more human (humane?) response.
Nevertheless, I give Synopsys credit that FPGA technical support remains
fine in speed & quality ... even if it's no longer as folksy.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We use Xilinx tools. I don't personally use Synplicity but haven't
heard negative comments regarding the tool related to the acquisition.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We tried Synplicity as a front end into Altera's Quartus, but results
weren't any better.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Synplicity is a shell of itself; was great, now dying. Our testing
is showing that Synplicity results are not as strong as XST, although
this may not be related to the acquisition.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Synopsys has so much money that they can buy their competitors like
Synplicity. They were not just FPGA tools, they had taken their first
step into competing with Synopsys, I don't remember their tool name
but it competed directly with DC. That is why they were bought by
Synopsys.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Synplicity is a shell of itself; was great, now dying. Support is not
very supportive now. They will not fix bugs I have.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I have good local support, that doesn't seem to have changed. What
I know and hear about the roadmap for Synplify looks like continued
development and support.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
The only product I have used (and will continue to use) is Synplify.
I had my reservations when I heard they were being acquired by
Synopsys; I figured that would just mean we'd have to pay a higher
price for the same product, and that our local AE would be replaced.
But, so far, that has not been the case. The users here at the lab do
have some complaints about recent versions relating to the over-use of
optimization settings; they don't like to having to opt-out. But, for
the most part, we prefer Synplify to MGC's PS tool. We still use the
Xilinx and Altera synthesis tools, too.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I have good local support, that doesn't seem to have changed. From what
I have seen of their roadmap I think the tools have good support and are
being developed. I'm happy with everything.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Altera Quartus II does a great job for us, RTL to SOF. I have always
admired Ken McElvain. It hurts to say it, but I haven't used Synplify
for several years and I don't know why anybody still does.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
For new devices the Xilinx & Altera tools do a better job and are well
integrated with the other FPGA tools (DSP and embedded processing).
About 9-12 months after release of a new device, Synplicity catches up.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Haven't really noticed that SNPS has had much impact on Synplicity.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Issues with reuse of timing exceptions in the FPGA synthesis from DC.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We used to use Synplify, but it got awful buggy in the last year or
two prior to Synopsys. Quartus is far superior in terms of handling
the language properly (VHDL) and producing reasonably good results.
I've submitted dozens of bugs to both Altera and Synplicity. Altera
fixed their bugs, for Synplicity I had to drop support just to get
their attention (coincidentally right around the time of Synopsys
buying them).
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
SECOND TIER: Synplicity HAPS has always been considered as a lessor cousin
to the more muscular Palladium and Veloce for emulation/acceleration. Since
the Synplicity-Synopsys merger, the main user complaint has been that HAPS
is too expensive for what it is.
Two years ago, Synopsys acquired Synplicity for $227 million. Our
thoughts on Synplicity since then are (choose ALL that applies):
3a- Our group doesn't do any ASIC Prototyping in house.
: ######################################################### 57%
3b- Our group uses (name emulators & co's).
Cadence Palladium : ########### 11%
Mentor Veloce : ###### 6%
EVE Zebu : #### 4%
Hitex : # 1%
4a- ASIC prototyping is now easier/cheaper for SNPS users!
: ######## 8%
4b- We can do better/cheaper on our own rather than HAPS.
: ##################### 21%
Comments?
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
When we evaluated prototyping, we were interested in HAPS, but as a
second tier solution to EVE, Cadence and Mentor. We compared HAPS
against DINI and similar vendors. I do not believe SNPS can gets
the higher end with this acquisition. SNPS should have bought EVE.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Our designs are small enough to fit in single FPGAs. We use Altera
dev kits. You can keep 5 to 20 software developers busy for the
price of one HAPS board. Heck, college students can practice on
FPGA vendors' dev kits for the price of 2 text books.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Used HAPS and Synplicity at another company and it worked fine,
although it wasn't cheap. Now only use Xilinx tools.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We looked at HAPS and instead choose to work with a local FPGA
board vendor at much less cost and commitment.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We use home grown FPGA hardware for emulation plus Palladium.
But we're buying a v6 HAPS board anyway -- go figure.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We're happy with Palladium.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We use CDN/Mentor/Eve instead. HAPS offer doesn't look attractive
for HW and HW/SW devpt, not enough flexibility/observability compared
to other emulation technology
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We find Palladium very good.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We are looking at BlueSpec, EVE and Mentor.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We use in house FPGA hardware, we're doing our first project with
HAPS, and we use Palladium. Our in house hardware is better and
cheaper, but I've heard good things about HAPS as well.
- [ An Anon EDA User ]
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