( SNUG 05 Item 15 ) ---------------------------------------------- [12/20/05]
Subject: Mentor Calibre, Hercules, Cadence Assura/Diva/Dracula, Magma Mojave
THE MAGMA PROBLEM (Part II) -- As for the current state of the DRC/LVS space,
there are no surprizes to be found here. Mentor Calibre still kicks ass:
"Avanti Hercules, Mentor Calibre, Cadence Diva/Dracula/Assura: who
is ahead and who is behind? Which DRC/LVS do you use? What do you
think about Hercules vs. the new Magma Mojave and new Cadence PVS?"
"Which DRC/LVS do you use?"
Mentor Calibre: ################################ 79%
Synopsys Hercules: ######### 23%
Cadence Assura/Dracula/Diva: ####### 18%
Silvaco Guardian: # 1%
The gotcha comes when customers discuss where they plan to go:
Magma Mojave: ############################## 76%
Cadence PVS: ######## 21%
Synopsys Hercules: ##### 12%
Mentor Calibre: ### 8%
Other than the obvious bad news for Mentor here, this is also bad news for
Synopsys, too. It's not because it's a fight over a $167.1 million market
(Gartner/Dataquest 2004); it's also a fight for 65 nm and 45 nm. For the
clueless Wall St. weenies reading this, DRC/LVS tools are "checkers" used
to check P&R tool outputs. Mentor had an advantage here, because its not
Cadence/Synopsys/Magma; people like using outside tools to do checking.
Since Cadence and Synopsys are still the Big Boys in P&R, becoming the new
dominant "checker" at 65 nm and 45 nm gives Magma the technological high
ground for its own set of P&R tools. Not good for Mentor. Not good for
Cadence. Not good for Synopsys. Great for Magma.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Calibre DRC/LVS sets the standard here. Regardless of the rest of the
tool flow, Calibre is required for tapeout.
- Kevin Broe of Britestream Networks
Currently was use Hercules, but Mojave may parallel process better.
- John Schritz of Tektronix
Generally Mentor and SNPS on par. Cadence not. Magma Mojave has good
performance, it will catchup in marketshare.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We currently use Calibre, but there may be moves afoot to move to one of
the competition. Certainly we'd consider the Magma offering first.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Use Calibre, they've got a proven reputation, but don't appear to be
innovating. Cadence/Hercules tell interesting stories, but have yet to
see it or hear any real data from customers directly. Mojave looks very
promising, and has real customer data to back it up.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor Calibre is ahead. use Mentor Calibre. think new Magma Mojave.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre is falling way behind. Roadmap is weak. MT Flex does not
deliver. This is our sign-off tool today.
Hercules is better, but still not strong. We do not use this tool. We
eval every 12 months or so. Hercules team refuses to innovate and do
the things we ask.
Comparing to Mojave: Mojave is the far superior tool. This is a new SW
arch built from scratch. We are seeing runtimes as that are 6x better
than Calibre. Licensing is also favorable. Very easy to drop in and
use. The mtcl interface for rule descriptions is a MAJOR advancement;
reducing lines of code (e.g. for a 130 nm rundeck: Mojave 4K LOC versus
25K for Calibre.)
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We are using Hercules. Calibre has a better user interface. But I don't
think that improvement can justify for purchases of new tools. We will
not consider Mojave and PVS even if we are going to switch.
- Wanhao Li of Zoran
user Mentor Calibre. new Magma Mojave potential
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Use Mentor. Mojave rocks!!!
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre is ahead. Cadence tools are behind. use Calibre. Mojave is
best performance.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Magma Mojave
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mojave is looking hot.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Use Hercules and Calibre. Calibre is ahead and the one to match.
Cadence/Diva et al are slipping. Mojave has claims, need to look into it.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor continues to lead the pack. Mojave does have select advantages
but taken in the context of all that is required of the tool, Calibre
continues to win.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre first. Not sure about Mojave vs PVS, but probably both above
Hercules.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use Calibre. Have not used Mojave and PVS
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor Calibre ahead. Hercules and Assura behind but similar between
them. I use Calibre Diva and Assura
It's to early but Magma and PVS are more promising respect Hercules.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre is ahead. Current Cadence tools stink, PVS absolutely needed
however not much information about it. Mojave very interesting and
under eval.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Currently using Calibre. Cadence PVS looks promising.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We presently use Calibre. The new Cadence PVS sounds compelling, but we
have not tried it in-house yet. We are very interested in understanding
the usage comparison with Calibre (i.e. don't want to completely retrain
our PV guys).
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use Calibre, no competition here. We just talked to Cadence and
they're self-destructive. Cadence should stop screwing up with good
products. They should know that mixing crap with good stuff results in
more crap. :) We're not willing to wait for Cadence while they
complete their OpenAccess migration with Assura, and then start new
migration with PVS.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
(head) Calibre, Hercules, Dracula, Assura (tail)
use Hercules, Dracula.
Hercules will win vs. Mojave and PVS.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use Calibre as we are an LSI only flow. It works good for us.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre works well for our 0.13 micron technology but may run out of
steam for 90 or 65.
- Sunil Malkani of Broadcom
Calibre is definitely ahead. Support for the other tools by leading
foundries is spotty. We are using Silvaco, though due to the large cost
differential. We are probably going to Calibre within 6 months due to the
foundries preference and very odd rule sets and "tape in" acceptance
criteria being generated for newer geometries which favor Calibre. By
"tape in" acceptance, I mean the foundry will re-run your design through
Calibre and only accept it if it passes Calibre DRC even if it meets design
rules. Conversely, layout structures that would be interpreted as not
meeting design rules by the test of the rule (e.g. some asymmetrical via
arrays caused by routers) are OK if it passes the approved Calibre
DRC. This behavior by the foundry is new to me.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Our Sub uses Hercules
- Richard of Reindl of L-3 Communications
We use Hercules. Don't use the others but over the last few years
Hercules has come a long way.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Hercules and Calibre are still the ones to beat for speed and maturity.
Assura has had the best GUI and is a bit more flexible but Hercules has
made recent improvements in that regard. Not sure of Calibre lately.
Assura is the most difficult to setup and debug, from a flow developer
point of view. Hercules has the weirdest rule coding.
We use Hercules, Assura and Diva. We haven't yet tried Mojave or PVS
so I can't comment on those.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use Cadence Assura.
- Tom Mannos of Sandia National Laboratories
We use Cadence Assura and Hercules
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Use Assura. With all the problems we are having with LVS/DRC, I can
only hope Hercules is better. :)
- Are Arseth of Atmel
In order of priority: Calibre, Hercules, Assura.
BTW, Assura is disaster.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
I believe that we're using Calibre for LVS and DRC.
- David Smith of STmicroelectronics
Dracula is preferred.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor forever here!
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
People in my company love Mentor Calibre.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
No.1: Calibre, we are still using it
No.2: Hercules
- Frank Li of Thomson Inc.
Use Hercules and Calibre. Assura was too much of a pain.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use Hercules - but seems like Calibre is the leader
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor Calibre is ahead. We use Calibre. We think Hercules is not
most credible as compare to Magma Mojave and Cadence PVS.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We think Calibre is very good but I was told we may be moving to
Hercules.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre
- Dinesh Venkatachalam of Legend Silicon
We use Hercules. The clear winner is the tool that TSMC uses: Calibre.
Many of the DFM rules for 90 nm have only been coded up in the TSMC
Calibre deck - and cannot be found in the Hercules deck. As long as
TSMC continues to do their development solely with Calibre, all TSMC
users should also use Calibre. Which tool is better does not matter
in this case.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre rules! Hercules is OK and Cadence is behind.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
I definitely think Calibre is way ahead than the rest of the tools.
Certainly Hercules is next and don't know if there is any serious
competetion beyond that. BTW, is Mojave released yet?
- Jay Pragasam of Open Silicon Inc.
Calibre seems to be taking market share. We use Hercules and have no
reason to change.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre is first class. Very easy to use. Faster than competition.
Easier to customize decks.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
I have been using Hercules for 2 years now. Very happy. Calibre before.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor is ahead. We use Hercules.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Use Hercules LVS. It does some really stupid things which are described
by Synopsys as 'the way it is supposed to work'.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Calibre wins. We use it. Sometimes also Cadence.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use Calibre. I haven't tested others but my impression is that this
is pretty much the tool to beat.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
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