( DAC 10 Item 6 ) ---------------------------------------------- [ 09/10/10 ]
Subject: Users react to the EDA360 paper before DAC
NO TIME: I think the biggest lesson from this experiment is that 53% of
chip designers are extremely busy people who don't have the time to read
a 32 page long manifesto -- even if it might change the design world. It
also appears that the 29% additional users who saw the EDA360 vision paper
as "Cadence marketing hype" actually didn't read the whole manifesto
itself because it was such a long read.
32 pages is waaaaay too
long for busy engineers: ########################### 53%
It's just more Cadence
marketing hype: ############### 29%
Is this a Palladium
announcement?: ### 6%
other: #### 8%
"Could you please post this EDA360 vision paper in the DeepChip.com
downloads section and publish the responses you get about it?"
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"No time to read."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Too long. Is there an executive summary somewhere?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"This is a book! No time."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"It's either lunch or Cadence. I chose lunch."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Can this be condensed somehow?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"This will take at least 4 hours to read."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"No time."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Too much"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"The thing is a bloody book!"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Where is the summary?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I've been reading the EDA360 white paper this weekend. This is an
area for which I have great interest and will provide feedback as
soon as I finish digesting. Burp!"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Is this guy paid by the word?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"No time."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Too much to read."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I can't spend the time on it. Sorry."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Is there a shorter rev available?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Too long."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Needs deep editing."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Too long"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"My boss won't let me put 2 hours on my timecard to read this book."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Wake me when it's over."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Too long"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I already read War and Peace in college."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Brevity is a virtue."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Not enough time."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Does this thing have a summary?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"No free time."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I wonder how much each of those strategy consulting groups on page 2
got paid to co-write this thing. $50K? $100K each?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Awful long for a Palladium announcement."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"All this for a new Palladium release?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Rah! Rah! Palladium-XL!"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I'm having difficulty discerning what specific concrete changes Bruggemen
is proposing for the EDA industry."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Sorry, John, but this marketing doc is too much."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"My Master's thesis was shorter and said 100X more."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Not enough meat, too much marketing fluff."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Lost interest by the third page. Too much hype."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"These CDNS folk sure like bloviation."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"My BS threshold saturated by page 2. Enough."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I stopped reading after page 3. Please tell me how this comes out."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I read the first three pages of EDA360 and didn't hit a single actual
point so I gave up. I am looking forward to the Cliff Notes (or is
it Cooley Notes?).
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"WTF? Marketing hype."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"My time is more valuable than 32 pages of BS."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I don't have time for this BS."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"No time for BS."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,"
Editor's Note: This blah blah blah went on for 32 pages. Very funny.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"From a verification point of view, more and more means slower and slower.
What kind of computer would I need to be able to verify a product that
follows the EDA360 vision? And many other issues I can think of that
verification is already having problems with, EDA360 vision makes them
bigger.
On an up note, it would be nice to be able to spec the applications that
will run and have that feed down into the hardware in a deterministic
way. On many projects in my past, the hardware is created, and then
software "lives" with it. There were always some issues when hardware
was not quite what it needed to be (usually processing power). In that
regard, the EDA360 vision would help get the product "more correct" the
first time."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"During the last 10 years, EDA sales have stagnated while the overall
semiconductor market boomed. Doesn't that simply mean that EDA companies
are not the must-have they used to be, and that a good chip company can
create the ultimate mobile gizmo without a $25 billion EDA market?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"I am incredibly skeptical whenever I see some big "we are going to change
how you do things" presentation. I've seen these sort of things before
and they always fail. Why do they fail? Because they are derived by EDA
companies who start with the underlying assumption that their tools work,
will work nicely with other vendors tools or that you use only their
tools. They also assume that a vendor can take on work I already do and
do a better job of it.
These assumptions are all incorrect.
I see asking an EDA vendor to take on more of my design very akin to
asking the federal government to play a larger role in regulating Wall
Street and our banking system. Rather than focusing on taking on new
responsibilities and expanding their role because things are failing,
they should look at where the system they already have in place is not
working and get that fixed first."
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"Please keep me anonymous, our relationship with Cadence is already not
the best.
First I have to admit that this is probably the currently most talked
about EDA topic, thanks to propaganda efforts by Cadence, including
using DeepChip for this. On the other hand I am engaging in the
discussion, too, so it seems to hit some nerve.
$25B industry by moving into adjacent fields, ie software/ system
integration, a 5X increase from the current EDA industry - what the???
Where should this be coming from / who should this be paying?
It is also not that these fields are empty, I would think that such a
transformed industry would not be called "EDA" anymore, but rather that
the other segment moguls would have acquired the EDA space instead.
That is, since software is now becoming so important why not that some
software companies in other fields who are earning good money with their
products would be buying out the EDA space? At the end of the day
their software needs some hardware infrastructure (including SOC/SIP/ICs)
to run and they would have to make sure that this is possible in a
differentiated manner.
EDA360 is a good summary of current ideas and trends but nothing really
surprising. Other EDA vendors already announced hardware platforms and
cooperations with SW development companies.
Will other EDA companies realize now a need to partner with Cadence to
fill the vision with actions? I think not. So each one of them will
continue down their own path which actually may look similar to this
Cadence vision.
It will be interesting to see how Cadence is going to manifest its vision
in products and how they want to move in adjacent segments without them
alienating the 'establishment' in these segments.
The most depressing fact of the vision is, though, that it does not
include the CAD groups nor the design teams of IC companies as part of
the partnership aspects of it. Instead they "want to talk to my leaders"
who should be more able to appreciate their value propositions?"
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
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