( ESNUG 523 Item 2 ) -------------------------------------------- [05/02/13]
Subject: So far public opinion is strongly anti-Cadence on CDNS vs. BDA
USERS NOT HAPPY: In all the letters I've received on Cadence suing Berkeley,
not one of them has taken a pro-Cadence stance. (Not one!) Yup, a lot of
angry letters here, but the ones that stuck out the most had some fun, too.
Here's what one person sent:
I had to Google "Shafer Relentless 2008", too. It's the No. 1 wine of 2012
as selected by WineSpectator.com. A unicorn doesn't exist. And a unicorn
that pees world class wine REALLY doesn't exist -- which means a lawsuit
which benefits EDA users REALLY doesn't exist either! Kind of silly but
creative. I liked it. At least it beat the cynical: "You're being sued?
That's GREAT! It means you've arrived!" comments. And I chuckled at the
two Aart comments at the very end. :)
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Tell Ravi that he's arrived! His first Big 3 lawsuit.
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My congrats to BDA. After all these years they've arrived.
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All this fuss over some OASIS licenses??? Really?
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Why doesn't BDA simply just buy a few OASIS licenses in order to
shut up those damn Cadence lawyers?
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I wonder if folks at Cadence remember the Joe Costello swan song
with accusations against customers in Japan about using Avanti...
This is really a bully tactic as the Oasis interface is not
friction-free. It requires a license which customers must purchase
separately and sales people can be difficult about including it in
a contract and it also does not enable the level of integration
available with Unified Interface.
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So this whole veil of CDNS openness is not really truly open.
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This might be some biting behavior before the Gorilla acquires a
weakened competitor, similar to SNPS/Nassda or SNPS/Lava.
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I feel bad for the good folks at BDA.
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Definitely bad for customers as one of the few privately held
companies is getting attacked, thusly scaring the little angel
VC's away from EDA.
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I think this lawsuit is just sowr grapes from a pissy Cadence.
We have been using BDA's tool for the last 6 years. They have a
waaaaay better tool compared to Cadence's Spectre and Spectre-APS.
We use all three tools for different types of simulations.
Why better you ask? It's pretty simple; Spectre is slow and
accurate, Spectre-APS is fast but not accurate, and BDA AFS
is fast and accurate. AFS also handles huge mixed-signal
circuits that Cadence just chokes on. We just did a whole
Serdes top-level in AFS. Spectre-APS didn't even converge on DC.
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We use all these tools in the ADE environment. For me, its nicely
integrated; the way a designer would want a simulator integrated
into ADE. And we have used both interfaces that BDA offers - and
the OASIS one sucks! Nobody in their sane mind would use it.
Ever. Unless you wanted to go back to the stone age!
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Why can't Cadence just leave these guys alone to do their thing????
We are not leaving ADE anytime soon so they should be happy to have
BDA in ADE.
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After reading about this lawsuit, the only thing I can think of is
the cover of this week's Economist which I just read. I'm attaching
it here for you to see. Check it out.
I think the title on the cover should read "CADENCE ROULETTE"!
What are these guys thinking?????
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Cadence is just falling behind BDA in simulation technology. I use
tools from both companies for PLL analysis: both analog and digital
PLLs. I've used Cadence for over 10 years. The performance and
accuracy of BDA's tools are fantastic and they are getting better.
It's a bit expensive though, so we have to ration AFS around here
because we don't have enough.
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I think this lawsuit is just harassment by Cadence because they are
losing sales to BDA. By trying to go through a gate and charge a
fee for me to use BDA in ADE, I am only going get angry at being
taxed like this by Cadence because I use BDA together with ADE.
It does not make sense!
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We use BDA AFS and Cadence Spectre in the ADE environment. I've
been supporting this setup for a almost 5 years now. It works well
and our designers love it.
We have seen both the SKILL and the OASIS interface to ADE that
BDA offers. We tried both. We selected the SKILL interface.
They didn't force us to use one or the other. We had to customize
it for our environment, though, but we were willing to do it
because it was so much more designer-friendly. We use tons of
SKILL around here to interface a lot of tools and utilities to ADE.
We don't see why we should not be allowed to use AFS in ADE using
the SKILL interface.
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This is not good.
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As a CAD manager, the only reason I can see why anyone would use
the OASIS interface is to enable Cadence to know exactly how many
copies of 'another non-Cadence product' am I using/integrating
with ADE -- because I will need one license for each job I run
from ADE and I need to get that license from Cadence (and I don't
need to get that license if I use a Cadence simulator like Spectre).
I don't see why I should pay Cadence to know that information
because that is my company's confidential information.
In fact, if I use more of AFS or more of Spectre is something I
won't tell BDA or Cadence. They will know when we either buy more
or less of their licenses. That is called fair competition.
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To me, this suit smells like Cadence does not like us to use SKILL
to interface non-Cadence products into ADE because they can't get
the information about how many copies of another tool we are using
in the ADE environment.
They want to use BDA as a "whipping boy". I've been around a long
time. SKILL was never restricted. Ask around. Now, we buy more
and more BDA, and suddenly SKILL is restricted?
Something funny is going on here.
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Bad news.
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There is something beyond what meets the eye with this lawsuit.
I am responsible for all CAD and have been dealing with BDA for the
past 6 years as a supplier. I have had to interact with a lot of
the people from BDA at all levels there, including Ravi -- in both
tough situations and good situations, and in both commercial and
IP negotiations.
From these interactions, I have to say that BDA is a very high
quality and high integrity company.
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I'm not happy to see Cadence push these guys around.
We use the BDA tools both standalone and within the Cadence ADE. We
have a lot of SKILL code to build up our design infrastructure and
integrate tools into our flows- and SKILL code to integrate the BDA
tools should be treated as no different.
...Unless, that is, if we bought less and less Cadence simulation and
more and more BDA simulation -- and I guess this is what Cadence does
not like. Let's face it, BDA has a damn good simulator, and they
shook up the whole SPICE world when they came out with it.
Everyone else was asleep at the wheel. Now they got a good thing
going and people are pissed and trying to find a way to stop them.
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We should all get behind this and make sure Cadence understands that
ADE is awesome -- but so is BDA AFS -- and that customers should be
able to use SKILL in whatever way they want to integrate the best
tools. Otherwise, why even have SKILL? I'm certainly going to tell
my colleagues at other companies to raise hell about this. All my
SKILL code is at risk right now.
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Well, at least this time it's not Aart using the courts to crush
his competition.
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WTF? A sketchy big guy vs. little guy EDA lawsuit and Synopsys
Legal isn't intiating it? Is Aart's team losing it's edge?
Should I short SNPS shares?
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Related Articles:
Berkeley's lawyer answers Cadence charges in U.S. District Court
Rumors of Calibre Interactive, Intel, TSMC, FTC, CDNS vs. BDA
Does Cadence-Berkeley lawsuit mean some ADE users will be sued?
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