( ESNUG 496 Item 1 ) -------------------------------------------- [12/15/11]
Subject: 81% of EDA users see the SNPS-LAVA merger as "bad news" overall
THE MICROSOFT OF EDA: The three big fears that EDA users have about this
upcoming Synopsys-Magma merger is less competition, EDA pricing going up,
and SNPS getting monopolies/dominance in STA, digital P&R, and SPICE.
A grand total of 208 EDA users and 21 EDA vendors/followers answered this
specific survey question:
"I'd like to hear what you think of this SNPS-LAVA merger. Is it
good news for you? Bad news? Neutral? Why do you think this?"
Here's how the 208 EDA users responded:
The SNPS-LAVA merger is
BAD : ######################################### 81%
GOOD : ##### 10%
NEUTRAL : #### 9%
And here's the breakout of how the users commented to the "Why?".
This SNPS-LAVA merger is BAD overall because:
SNPS-LAVA means less competition : ##################### 42%
makes EDA pricing go up : ############## 27%
SNPS sales is arrogant : # 2%
has anti-trust concerns : #### 7%
makes SNPS the Microsoft of EDA : ### 6%
it gives SNPS niche tool monopolies : ######## 17%
it kills innovation : #### 8%
gives SNPS dominance in STA : ######## 16%
gives SNPS dominance in digital P&R : ########## 19%
gives SNPS dominance in synthesis : ## 4%
gives SNPS strength in LVS/DRC : #### 7%
gives SNPS dominance in SPICE : ##### 9%
we depend on LAVA database : #### 7%
helps form SNPS/CDNS duopoly : # 3%
prefered a LAVA-MENT merger instead : ### 7%
prefered a LAVA-CDNS merger instead : # 2%
LAVA-SNPS hurts CDNS : ## 5%
LAVA-SNPS hurts MENT : # 2%
This SNPS-LAVA merger is GOOD overall because:
we get LAVA tools w/ SNPS license : ### 7%
helps SNPS compete vs. CDNS Virtuoso : ## 4%
This SNPS-LAVA merger is NEUTRAL overall because:
I don't use LAVA tools : ## 4%
"I'd like to hear what you think of this SNPS-LAVA merger. Is it
good news for you? Bad news? Neutral? Why do you think this?"
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We are a heavy Synopsys user but have been evaluating LAVA tools recently
and had just qualified Magma for some MCMM ECO work.
I see this as a dominant player in the EDA market, SNPS, gobbling up a
rising competitor, thereby removing competition in the marketplace.
It's exactly this competition that benefits consumers of expensive EDA
licenses by forcing Synopsys, Magma, Cadence, Mentor, etc. to all lower
their prices and increasing quality.
It will be interesting to see which way the Obama administration and the
FTC will rule on this acquisition. They just squashed AT&T and T-Mobile
merger. How will they go on this? Aart should consider writing a big
fat check to the Obama 2012 victory fund to see this deal get through
the FTC... Everyone knows that's how Washington works... unfortunately.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This lets Synopsys become the Microsoft of EDA. Bad for users.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad.
Instead of "MicroSoft" for EDA we say "MicroSynop".
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad.
Is this legal? Will the U.S. government let Aart buy a Microsoft-sized
marketshare of the backend flow?
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
"GOOD".
You know all that innovation and creativity that came from Microsoft
once it got really big? Synopsys will be the same way.
Oh, wait... All Microsoft did when it got big was monopolize.
Change to that to "BAD".
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad. Dealing with today's Synopsys is like dealing with Microsoft in
the days before Linux and Google. (God help us.)
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
While Magma's implementation tools have been suffering recently, this is
still a net negative for the industry as it means less competition and
fewer choices. This merger gives Synopsys 2 of the top 4 PNR tools,
2 of the top 3 DRC/LVS tools, the 3 best RC extraction tools, 3 best STA
tools, and 3 best SPICE simulators on the market. Antitrust? Ha ha ha.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I hope that the DOJ steps up to stop this.
Trusting Synopsys to not become a monopoly in EDA is like trusting
Michael Jackson to babysit your 8 year old son.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
When two big companies merge, there is always BAD news, for the customers
and the employees of SNPS and LAVA.
Innovation will be hurt again.
Isn't this merger breaking the US antitrust laws?
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad. Our mgmt says SNPS-LAVA won't get past the anti-trust regulators
so we're not too concerned.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
The "water cooler" talk here yesterday was that the deal will not get
approval from the US government bodies, due to creating a near-monopoly
in physical design tools. Maybe that meant "good physical design tools"
because SNPS certainly sells alot already.
We probably had fewer licenses from LAVA, so this could be something of
a plus for us, as we'd roll these into our SNPS bundle and likely get
a better discount as a result.
While LAVA's SPICE tool may have been giving Aart indigestion, LAVA has
some good analog design tools, too.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad. Can you spell m-o-n-o-p-o-l-y p-r-i-c-i-n-g?
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Besides the fear of near-monopoly powers, there is something fundamentally
unhealthy about our tax & business laws encouraging the agglomeration of
so much talent and intellectual capital under the umbrellas of so few
MegaCorps.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Synopsys has reached the conclusion that if they "kill" the Magma business
model of "unlimited" licenses SNPS will increase their revenue by 3-5X and
double their profit margin.
So it's a good deal for Synopsys, not so good for the IC companies.
In multiple market segments SNPS will now have complete monopolies.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
As the customer of the SNPS, I'd like to try Magma's tools for my
projects for free. That's good. SNPS will monopolize the EDA market
one day; a nightmare for all IC designers. That's bad.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
As a tools user nothing changes, but in general, lack of competition
means no good.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This is bad news. After this merger, SNPS has more or less total control
over the digital P&R market.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad news.
- Elimination of competition. I don't think anyone realistically
expects Synopsys to continue to support Talus in the long term
and it would not make sense to do so.
- As a Magma user for many years at several smaller sized companies there
have been two primary reasons why we have been using Magma tools:
o support. Although we have often felt that Synopsys tools were
better, Magma support was much more committed to helping us.
Better tools are a good thing, until something goes wrong....
and something always goes wrong.
o flexibility in licensing and contracts. Synopsys has historically
been unwilling to deal; consequently they have lost our business.
Now with both tool suites falling under one umbrella I do not eagerly
await the assimilation of Magma into Synopsys, especially with one fewer
alternatives available when it comes time to make a tool decision again.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I think is bad news. Synopsys will then control the design software
industry. Not a good sign.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This is very bad, goodbye competition, goodbye innovation.
It was in the air for long time that someone will but Magma, but this is
the worst situation For EDA users.
Sad day.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Of course bad news John. Lack of competition --> Not good for us.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad.
It's a brilliant move by Aart to take advantage of the bad economic
times to consolidate the SNPS position. It's great for Synopsys and
their shareholders. It's terrible for the IC design business.
Everyone in the IC design business can see what Synopsys is doing.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I have used Magma tools before. They are not perfect but pretty good
tools though. I guess Synopsys would kill some of LAVA tools due to
heavy overlap with existing ones. It is sad to see those tools gone.
With no PNR/STA competition left, SNPS monopoly pricing will kill us.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad.
I am always using DCT/ICC/PT. I am a little afraid a SYNOPSYS/CADENCE
will hold all the P&R market that will block competition.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
As a consumer and buyer of EDA tools I always cringe when an EDA giant
like Cadence or Synopsys buys a smaller EDA company.
It's always bad news for consumers when the number of vendors shrinks
in the market place. Fewer vendors means the EDA marketplace becomes
more of a monopoly and less of a competitive playing field.
In my opinion large companies like Synopsys (and Cadence) like to buy
out smaller companies because its easier to buy them than to compete
with them on price and product quality. They basically buy them to
destroy a competitor. That is always bad for consumers. I hate that.
- Steven Hardy of CoCo ChIP Design Services, Inc.
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I think it's definitely bad news for us: less competition is *always*
bad for the customer.
Also, SNPS has a bad track record on acquisitions (Virage, anyone?)
We recently switched from CDNS First Encounter to Talus Vortex and now
have a convergent PnR flow. (FE wasn't. Each iteration could take
2-3 weeks. In Talus, we spin the database every 24 hours).
After 12 months and 2 tapeouts in Talus, we have better power numbers
than after 5 years with FE. Let's just say that we're very satisfied
with Magma and the help we have recieved from their UK support team.
We have previous experience with Avanti (at a different company) where
we switched to Magma, and we have no desire in going back to Avanti
here (either).
Magma has developed some interesting products over the last decade, and
I'm afraid that Aart just bought Magma to kill off some of the most
(fiscally) irksome products. So goodbye Tekton, goodbye synthesis tool
(Talus Design), goodbye FineSim. I'm crossing my fingers that they'll
abort Avanti and continue Talus suite.
But being deeply cynical for a moment: killing off a product line seems
to take 3-5 years, and we probably want to switch to a different product
at that time anyway. Trouble is that product would have to be on the
market about now, in order to be truly stable when we want to pick it up.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Not good. Very not good.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This is a nightmare.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
This will be great come license renewal time -- NOT!
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Consolidation is always good news for the few remaining top suppliers
and bad news for the buyers. Unfortunately we're a buyer. :(
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
We are so royally screwed.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
It's fun news.
My VP will &^*# a brick when I tell him that we'll have to double our
CAD budget for the exact same SW three years from now.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Very bad.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad news. SNPS will own digital PNR, STA, Synth.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad for users.
That talk about Synopsys eager for Magma R&D staff is pure B.S.
Once this deal is finalized, D'Aart Vader will send in his Imperial
Synopsys Marketing Stormtroopers to finally crush the Magma rebels.
Kill the competition is their motto.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad.
I feel sorry for the hundreds of LAVA employees who will be laid off.
I feel sad about the higher prices we'll see in the near future.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Bad news. Restricts competition.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Less compeition == bad for users
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Less competition in any market is bad for its buyers.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
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