( ESNUG 448 Item 1 ) -------------------------------------------- [11/11/05]
Subject: Seven Viewers React to the DeepChip Online Magma Power Flow Demo
> As I mentioned in ESNUG 447 on Monday, here's the first of the videos
> shot at DAC with Pallab and I pestering the EDA vendors. In this case
> it's power tools from Apache, Sequence, Magma, Golden Gate, ChipVision,
> Prolific and Atrenta.
>
> http://www.deepchip.com/demos/dac_power_tools.fhtml
>
> The interviews range from a quickie 2 minute chat with Sequence to a
> half hour in-depth discussion with Magma about Blast Power; but most
> run ~5-7 mins.
From: Philippe Moyer <philippe.moyer=user domain=soisic spot gone>
Hi John,
I quickly watched the Magma demo and the phone interview. We are not right
now Magma users. It seems that Magma is addressing all our needs in term of
power (multi-VT, mtcmos power gating, frequency scaling, back biaising...).
Because I did not use the tools, I really wonder how far all these features
are really supported and automated (flexibility to manage where the level
shifter, retention cells, and mtcmos power gating cells will be placed and
sized,....)
Anyway based on this demo, it looks like Magma is in good position vs. its
competitors Cadence and Synopsys.
- Philippe Moyer
SoisIC Grenoble, France
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From: [ Hello Kitty ]
Hi John,
Please keep my name anonymous. First of all thank you for creating the
demos-on-demand site. Actually I followed a link from one of your posts to
the demos-on-demand page and was looking at the signal-integrity demos.
The Magma demo was very clear and since I use Magma tools I could follow it
very well. The Apache demo was also quite detailed and helpful in
understanding their tool flow. However I do not have access to their tools
and therefore can not compare with real experience.
The signal integrity demo from Cadence was not clear. (poor recording?)
- [ Hello Kitty ]
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From: Don Gabriel <dbgabriel=user domain=rfidmetrix spot gone>
Hi, John,
I found the Magma Blast Power demo very impressive. It somewhat reminded me
of that Avanti PI/SI tool capabilities many years ago. (I believe it was
Star-ADM, or previously Anagram, simulator developed for sub-micron design.
It had a lot of very fast proprietary SPICE-like algorithims for low-voltage
analysis and signal integrity at that time.)
Depending on the functional requirements of the target device, especially
with the PI and SI issues, the Magma Blast Power application looks like it
could perform the job well.
Anyway, my questions to Magma after seeing this demo are:
1. Are the SPICE models generated & verified from actual lab measurements?
2. Could in-process "markers" or indicators embedded in the RTL source code
predict power consumption to mitigate IR drops and other switching (i.e.
clock-gating) events? Basically, sort of like a "branch-prediction"
algorithim for PI and SI?
3. Can these changes (i.e. frequency scaling) which impacts overall
performance, be simulated and verified prior to submitting to the fab?
It appears Magma has dedicated a lot of thought and development effort about
the RTL-to-GDSII process. It will be interesting what their new versions
will include.
- Don Gabriel
PDM Solutions Corp.
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From: Xiao Jian Zhou <ben.zhou=user domain=nw.idt spot gone>
Hi John,
I browsed two demos of Magma flow in the website, low power design flow and
the top-down hierarchical flow. I was delighted to see the top-down
hierarchical flow, which did a great help for me. From the demo, I saw what
should be done step by step to complete a top-down design, which could not
be found in the documents of Magma user guide.
- Xiaojian Zhou
Integrated Device Technology, Inc.
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From: Dvor Efrat <dvor.efrat=user domain=infineon spot gone>
Hi John,
I saw your interview with Magma's representative (phone conference), and
mostly was interested to understand the tool's support for multi-voltage
domains design implementation. My impression was that the Magma tool does
have support for these features, but although Magma's representative seems
to have tech knowledge about it, it was difficult for me to figure out just
how complete and mature is the support for these features (and their
implications for top level timing closure, SI handling, OCV and so on).
- Dvor Efrat
Infineon
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From: Rahul Khinvasara <rahul.khinvasara=user domain=nevisnetworks spot gone>
Hi John,
That Magma Power demo is useful for a beginner. It does give a real feel of
their tool as compared to reading stuff to explore any tool.
- Rahul Khinvasara
Nevis Networks Mountain View, CA
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From: Will Ruby <wruby=user domain=ggtcorp spot gone>
Hi, John,
I think Sameer from Magma is not really familiar with Sequence's Power
Theater to comment that the Magma flow includes Power Theater capabilities.
Power Theater does a great job in RTL power estimation that allows the user
to make appropriate tradeoffs before synthesis. Power Theater also performs
very accurate gate-level power analysis and is used as a "power signoff"
tool at quite a few customers. In some cases, these customers are verifying
the Golden Gate power reduction results with PowerTheater analysis.
- Will Ruby
Goden Gate Technology San Jose, CA
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