( ESNUG 444 Item 3 ) -------------------------------------------- [04/25/05]
Subject: Neutral EDA Vendors on the Synopsys-Magma Lawsuit
> For EDA vendors (who are NOT Magma nor Synopsys employees), what do you
> think will realistically happen and not happen to Magma users if Synopsys
> wins this lawsuit?
From: [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
Hi, John,
I was at Avanti as an AE when the sheriff came in and started taking away
our computers and our papers and asking us questions. I remember sitting
at the nearby McDonald's the next day because we couldn't go back into
the building. All of us in the AE and sales force were on our cell phones
talking to customers. The stress was so high that we ate like 2 million
french fries each. But that year for us was the best sales year we ever
had. The thing is, the court said the customers can't be penalized; it
would mess up the whole economy too much, and that was not in the interest
of justice. The same will happen here. Magma is too big.
I'd tell the customers that now is the time to make price deals. I'd tell
the Magma sales people to keep their heads up and deny everything, like
Jerry told us to do. I'd tell the rest of the EDA vendors to watch out
for horrible price pressure, since Magma is going to have to firesale
everything.
I think that Synopsys is just going to take over Magma and have high end
(Astro-flow) and low-end backend solutions. This will be great for them,
because the needs of the fast/giant/tiny technology chips is very
different from the wireless and consumer electronics stuff. They will
be able to make more meaningful assumptions in their designs if they
could segment the backend market tools by size and power-consumption.
- [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: Bill Cox <bill=user domain=viasic got palm>
Hi, John,
The primary outcome of this lawsuit will probably have nothing to with
the morality, rightness or wrongness of what's happened. Synopsys
marketing and sales will hammer Magma with FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and
Doubt). In my experience, this has been the primary function of patent
litigation in our industry. The damage to Magma from this will probably
be more severe than any penalties awarded by the courts.
In other words, this kind of lawsuit is mostly driven by marketing.
It's not so much about who's right or wrong.
- Bill Cox
ViASIC
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
Hi John,
It's not clear, yet, whether one company is more right than the other.
Regardless of who wins the case, though, I think that this will make EDA
vendors more cautious than before. Development will slow. Ultimately, the
engineers responsible for building chips are the losers. For the life of
me, I can't understand why EDA is so litigious. It's a shame.
- [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: Mehmet Cirit <mac=user domain=libtech not mom>
Hi, John,
I agree with Synopsys' arguments. Furthermore, not only Magma customers,
any users of the chips and designs built using those tools are liable.
That may not be good news for smaller design houses lured by special
deals. Realistically though, it is unlikely that Synopsys will sue
Magma customers who are also Synopsys customers; it is bad business
practice. Ultimately it may depend on the balance of pluses and minuses.
If someone hit the jackpot and has been using Magma tools, they should
be concerned.
Along the same lines, if pirated tools are used in the design process,
designs become the derivatives of the tools, irrespective of all IP and
efforts which may have gone into it otherwise. All users of the designs,
including the fabs who make copies of the designs, become liable. This
may be one way to stop piracy.
- Mehmet Cirit
Library Technologies, Inc. Saratoga, CA
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
Hi, John,
These types of lawsuits where the EDA end customers are dragged into the
fight ultimately hurts the EDA industry in many ways.
As scare tatics they really don't work in the ring, but in the long term
its got to effect the customer's EDA tool plans among other things. In
house development for starters. It also makes licensing agreements more
complex and costly which really kills small companies and drives up the
cost of doing business.
In the end Synopsys will merge with Magma or Magma gets bought by Mentor
(if it looks like Magma will lose). Then Synopsys will settle with Mentor
and EDA goes on. (Where have we heard this scenario before?) But the bad
taste in the customers mouth will linger for EDA generations to come.
- [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
Hi John,
If Synopsys wins the lawsuit, which I think it will, realistically there
will be no legal damage at all to Magma customers. This is obviously a
PR tactic of Synopsys to scare off Magma customers. Actually, I believe
it is a big and integral part of Synopsys's strategy for this lawsuit.
I also tend to think that it will work, and Magma will suffer irrevocably.
However, Synopsys will not necessarily be the winner, and unfortunately,
customers will certainly suffer from poor product quality and inadequate
support throughout this process. The winner? Cadence can be the one if
it takes advantage of some of the openings cracked by the lawsuit.
- [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
John,
This drama has only one ending that makes sense:
Synopsys will acquire Magma for "a song" and all customers will (sort of)
live happily everafter. Very much like Nassda. The only losers will be
some of the individuals that have been focused on by Synopsys.
Synopsys even hinting at its customers infringing on a patent of Synopsys
is going to scare away a lot of current customers, because most of Magma's
customers are also Synopsys customers. But I am sure that Synopsys is
just posturing and not threatening anyone but Magma for real. If this
threat were real, then Cadence could be a major benificiary.
In any case, I am betting that this will be settled before trial by the
DAC timeframe.
The bottom line is this is just a no-op for the users, unless no one comes
to their senses. Then it will be a great money maker for the lawyers on
both sides!
- [ An Anon EDA Vendor ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: Lou Covey <lou=user domain=vitalcompr caught bomb>
Hi, John,
Just from a common sense point of view, I would think that Magma users
would not have a problem for the simple reason of customer service.
We all know that there is no such thing as plug-and-play in EDA.
So let's say Magma loses the suit and has to pay. They will probably be
out of business anyway, but even if they survive, they can no longer
provide service to the customers. If the customers can't get help, the
tool becomes useless. So the customer HAS to call Synopsys, buy a new
license and sign up for support. That's what Synopsys wants.
If Synopsys want to play hardball with customers, its probably going to
be the little guys that get hit. Synopsys is not going to sue a customer
like Intel. But that's a really good way to lose market share. You
can't call Synopsys a marketing giant, but they know who butters the
bread. If I were in marketing, I'd offer a discount to Blast Fusion
customers to come to the other side now.
So Synopsys is going to get their way no matter what and won't want to
waste resources going after people who are very likely to become
"loyal" customers once this comes to a close.
- Lou Covey
VitalCom PR Redwood City, CA
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