( ESNUG 444 Item 1 ) -------------------------------------------- [04/25/05]
Subject: Magma Users on the Synopsys-Magma Lawsuit
> For Magma users, how does your company see this potential infringment
> situation? Is this something that your design team (or legal dept) is
> concerned about or is it just so much circus noise that you generally
> ignore? What's your contigency plan on this, if any?
From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
Hi, John,
This is just noise. If Synopsys wins they will not sue us since we are
also heavy users of Synopsys and Synopsys would never sue their own
customers. I also believe Magma is working on a non-infringing Blast
product but will not reveal this fact at this moment because this
would infer they know they are guilty in the eyes of the court.
If worse comes to worst, there is always the chance Cadence or Mentor
will buy Magma. (See Avanti.)
Due to all these reasons, we feel safe.
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
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From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
Hi, John,
We have discussed this here. We have been happy Magma customers for a
while and selected Magma after a head to head benchmark with Synopsys.
I think this is just another way Synopsys can frighten people away from
selecting an alternative product. Shame on Synopsys.
I find it very hard to believe that these patent infringement claims
can be valid and if the patent has already been issued it doesn't seem
fair, or reasonable to crush Magma. Even if Synopsys's claims had any
legitimacy. This issue makes me want to avoid Synopsys as much as I
already wanted to avoid Cadence (which is with every fiber of my being).
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
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From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
Hi, John,
We ignore the problem. We think this is a non-issue; considering that
Magma tools have had enough problems on their own. We have had some
problems with Magma tools -- one that caused a timing problem to not be
reported which caused our first tapeout to fail. This had to be
corrected by a FIB for a few samples and now we are going to have a
metal respin.
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
My company uses both Magma and Synopsys.
Going after or even threatening the end users makes Synopsys the villain.
It will backfire on Synopsys and it hurts the industry. They should shed
a bunch of arrogance (and a few lawyers) and concentrate more on making
all their customers happy. They should realize that most Magma customers
used to be Synopsys customers. The market was theirs to loose.
Arrogance keeps Synopsys from negotiating sales.
Arrogance keeps them from proper post sales support.
Arrogance makes them loose, either way.
Learn or loose.
I don't condone patent infringment. I understand the need to enforce it.
But in general I think they need to invest money in application engineers,
not lawyers.
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
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From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
Hi John,
We currently use Synopsys tools for most of our flow. We use Magma for
our layout. If Synopsys screws us over this Magma thing, we will never
even consider using Synopsys PD tools! Ever!
We're just trying to fish. Not happy about all the sharks.
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
What can you do against it as a customer? We are not going to replace
Magma Blast by a Synopsys product unless Synopsys products are better
in a FAIR competition. Motivation for the lawsuit against Magma is for
sure not a fair way how to dominate the backend and synthesis market.
To answer your question, we have no plans for the case if Synopsys
wins. We just hope it will not happen.
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ An Anon Magma User ]
Hi, John,
Even if it is right and required for compagnies to protect themselves,
I think Magma and Synopsys should try to reach an agreement. It would
be much better for our industry and the EDA diversity. Challengers are
good for compagnies to make progress.
My compagny has commercial agreements with both Magma and Synopsys. In my
own division, we are using both tools depending on projects. So, I guess
our legal dept is carefully looking at what is going on but, in terms of
risk, I think it is low. Synopsys cannot take the risk to start legal
action against one of its big customers.
- [ An Anon Magma User ]
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: [ A Wall Street Analyst ]
Hi, John,
Perhaps SNPS will weaken LAVA enough to have CDN buy them like SNPS did
Avanti. Wonder what Mojave alone is worth to CDN, then it gets very
interesting.
Talked with a number of users that are watching but have no plans to
change suppliers. Understand the need to protect key IP, but SNPS just
looks like a big bully here. (customer feedback) Bad for EDA.
- [ A Wall Street Analyst ]
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