( ESNUG 416 Item 4 ) -------------------------------------------- [07/30/03]
Subject: A Variety Of Reader Reactions To The Sequence/Apache Lawsuit
> Those of us who have been around EDA for a while know that DAC really is
> just a place is where EDA vendors make marketing pitches to see what
> sticks with users. Vic Kulkarni, the CEO of Sequence (and an ex-Avanti
> Marketing VP), knows the difference between a rival stealing his source
> code versus his marketing message. So I got quite angry when I found out
> that Patrick had been fired from Apache and then Vic involved him in a
> lawsuit anyway; all this because Patrick snagged his Sequence sales pitch?
> That ain't right, and it makes Sequence look paranoid and desperate. What
> was Vic thinking when he initiated this frivolous lawsuit?
>
> - from http://www.deepchip.com/gadfly/gad072103.html
From: Keith Mueller <keith=user domain=apache-da spot calm>
Hi, John,
There's one thing that's not correct in your published story; the reference
to Patrick being "fired". His voluntary resignation was offered, then we
accepted because of Sequence over-blowing the situation, and the fact they
overtly went out to instigate concerns at our customers. I received a
customer call that same morning, the Friday of DAC week. After that call,
and other customer conversations that followed, it was obvious we couldn't
allow even the smallest doubt in their minds, about the judgment of people
handling their proprietary data.
- Keith Mueller
Apache Design Solutions, Inc.
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From: Kevin Hubbard <kevin.hubbard=user domain=siemens spot calm>
Hi, John,
Actually, I think you should remove both
Apache Design Solutions
and
Sequence Design, Inc.
from your EDA JumpZone at http://www.deepchip.com/edajumpzone.html
They don't deserve our business.
- Kevin Hubbard
Siemens
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: Brian McClung <bkmtech=user domain=ieee.org>
Hi, John,
Sounds like Pat should have used a little foresight.
What did he expect?
- Brian McClung
IEEE Member Temecula, CA
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: David Stroup <david.stroup=user domain=titan spot calm>
John,
What was Vic thinking? Simple -- his list of "Everything I Need to Know
About EDA I Learned In Avanti" is REALLY short:
1) Steal source code!
2) Market like crazy!
3) Litigate forever!
Patrick Wei wasn't doing #2 or #3, ergo he MUST have been doing #1!
Therefore, it's time for Vic to do #3!
Thanks for bringing Kulkarni's true colors to light.
- David Stroup
Titan Corp. San Diego, CA
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From: Chris Byham <chris.byham=user domain=philips spot calm>
I think that this is outrageous. I think back to when I worked for 3Com, at
any networking shows we always tried to get info out of compeditors and they
did the same to us. It was seen as part of the game, and no-one ever tried
a cease-and-desist lawsuit. Heck, I've still got the stupid wooden
train-whistle that was part of the stuff we blagged from Packet-Engines
back in 98 (or was it 97?).
- Chris Byham
Philips Semiconductors
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From: Sylvia Nessan <sylvia=user domain=lisatek spot calm>
Hey John,
I like this commentary and hooray for you taking it on. I don't know any of
the individuals, but certainly the firing of Patrick was over the top. And
legal action, even Synopsys in the old days would not have done that.
- Sylvia Nessan
CoWare, Inc. San Jose, CA
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: Eric Decker <eric.decker=user domain=paradigm-works spot calm>
Early on in my career, my first job out of college, my boss asked me to
phone our competition and collect information on what they were offering
by posing as a potential customer. I refused.
In my experience, most companies accomplish this data gathering by asking
third-parties and former collegues working for the competition - not through
direct espionage. Maybe I just lead a sheltered life.
At any rate, I completely agree with you about the lawsuit. It makes no
sense whatsoever.
- Eric Decker
Paradigm
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From: Jeremy Sewall <jsewall=user domain=lsil spot calm>
Mr. Cooley,
While I agree with your comments that the lawsuit is quite frivolous, I do
think that the job action taken was appropriate. Using false credentials
for a competitive gain is highly unprofessional, regardless of how valuable
the information accessed really is.
- Jeremy Sewall
LSI Logic
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From: Gach Robert <robert.gach=user domain=motorola spot calm>
So are you condoning theft and unethical practices? People moving from
company to company is one thing, but falsifying credentials to gain access
to information is theft. You can not condone that as the sprit of DAC!
My own company, proud of its ethical stance, would have fired him as well.
- Robert Gach
Motorola Semiconductor Toulouse, France
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
From: Suzy Price <suzyp=user domain=us.ibm spot calm>
John,
Using false credentials to gain access to Sequence's DAC suite was fraud,
pure and simple. Patrick was stupid, and got caught. That would be a
firing offense at my employer, too. I don't care how incestuous the
business is.
- Suzy Price
IBM Printer Controller Development
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Editor's Note: I find it ironic that the letters from the three people
who were "shocked! shocked!" that Patrick was spying on his competition's
*marketing* message were from Motorola, LSI Logic, and IBM. Two of them
said it was also "a firing offense at my employer, too". That doesn't
make sense! The moment a rival of Motorola, LSI Logic, or IBM ships a
new chip, they (like everyone else in the chip business) send their
rival's new chip to a reverse-engineering lab to find out in great detail
*exactly* what their rival's chip does! Go to http://www.chipworks.com
and you can buy reverse-engineering reports on 1,120 chips from HP, 3Com,
STMicro, Broadcom, IBM, Motorola, AMD, Intel, Analog Devices, NEC, Sony,
Toshiba, LSI Logic, Nokia, Samsung, ATI, Philips, etc... Snagging a
rival's *marketing* message is minor compared to what you get when you do
a complete silicon teardown & analysis. "Firing offence?" Huh? - John
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