( DVcon 05 Item 16 ) -------------------------------------------- [ 10/25/05 ]
Subject: Mentor Seamless, CoWare ConvergenSC, Synopsys System Studio
STEADY REJECTION -- Last year, 88% of users rejected using commercial HW/SW
co-sim tools. This year, it's 81% + 6% = 87%. (In 2004, I counted those
who used their own homebrew co-sim as being "don't use" of the commercial
co-sim tools. For 2005, I decided to show those using homebrew co-sim.)
2004 - "Do you use HW/SW co-simulation like CoWare ConvergenSC
or Mentor Seamless?"
don't use : ############################################ 88%
Mentor Seamless : ### 7%
CoWare ConvergenSC : ## 3%
Annapolis CoreFire : # 1%
Summit VCPU : # 1%
2005 - "Do you use HW/SW co-simulation like CoWare ConvergenSC or Mentor
Seamless or Aldec Riviera-IPT or Synopsys System Studio?"
don't use : ######################################### 81%
homebrew co-sim : ### 6%
Mentor Seamless : ### 6%
CoWare ConvergenSC : ## 2%
Synopsys System Studio : # 1%
Carbon Design : .5%
Aldec Riviera-IPT : 0%
I've seen this trend for 2 years now. I'd honestly like to hear from a
Mentor Seamless or a CoWare ConvergenSC salesman. What exactly is your
value proposition? How do you sell this stuff? Can an EDA salesman
actually make any money in this niche? Honestly, I'm curious.
We looked at these several times in the past, but each time we could
not see the added value of the tools. Now with SytemC co-simulation
is easier to achieve without special tools, just ModelSim will do it.
- Frank Vorstenbosch of Telecom Modus Ltd.
No
- Samuel Irlapati of Unisys
We use ConvergenSC. It is a good tool.
- Rajveer Shekhawat of Central EE Research Institute, India
We used simple processor models or Seamless here and there up until a
few years ago, then switched to a home-grown C++ co-simulation envir.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Not at this time. But we have in the past. If we were doing a large
chip without emulation I would look at it though.
- Dan Joyce of Hewlett-Packard
We do our cosimulation using SystemC models.
- Jeff Clark of Starkey Labs
no
- Karthik Kandasamy of Wipro
We used Mentor Seamless before we were purchased and are now just
thinking of getting back into it. It is a good tool.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Might use System Studio for some of it.
- Sandro Pintz of Portal Player, Inc.
Nope - we use real hardware with real microprocessors. It's faster
to get to the end product that way.
- Tom Moxon of Moxon Design
No.
- Dave Ferris of Tundra Semiconductor
We have used Seamless successfully in the past, and are contemplating
its use in a new family of designs.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
No.
- Jonathan Craft of McData Corp.
We can build co-simulation ourselves in TestBuilder.
- Christian Mautner of Integrated Device Technologies
We develop our bus functional (co-simulation) model using Seamless.
From a user's perspective, it would be better if it were more flexible
rather than support a specific number of processors.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Synopsys System Studio
- Peng Hong of Datang Microelectronics China
Not any more. We used to use Mentor Seamless. We've got Palladium
now and the necessary work-arounds to imitate Seamless.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use SystemC models for HW/SW development and simulation.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We use the SANKHYA Machine Description Language, the SANKHYA Debugger
and SANKHYA Simulator. (We also develop it.) SANKHYA! SANKHYA!
- Gopi Kumar Bulusu of Sankhya Technologies
Expensive, difficult learning curve, not enough return on investment.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Evaluating CoWare
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Both VHDL and Verilog now have a PLI, which allows you to link to C.
We do this all the time, to tie our origial C code to the RTL.
- [ Kenny from Southpark ]
Nope.
- Kevin Jones of Rambus
We use Mentor Seamless. There were some initial issues integrating
it with VCS but once worked through it met our needs.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Not yet, but will evaluate System Studio on a upcoming design where
we'll embed an ARM core.
- Rajen Ramchandani of Mindspeed Technologies
We use Seamless. Generally consider it slow.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
Mentor Seamless. Slow.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We do HW/SW co-simulation with Carbon Design, which turns the RTL into
a C executable that the software can connect up to. I don't use the
tool; our software team is quite happy with it.
- John Zook of Stargen
No, just homegrown solutions.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
No.
- Mark Lancaster of Freescale Semiconductor
No, but we do our own homegrown co-sim using SystemC & ModelSim.
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
We looked at Mentor Seamless but could not use them due to lack of
model for the processor.
- Ba Nguyen of SonoSite, Inc.
They do not keep up with the market
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
No
- George Gorman of LSI Logic
No.
- Tom Mannos of Sandia National Labs
Our group doesn't. Some folks use Seamless
- [ An Anon Engineer ]
No
- William Mills of Northrop Grumman Corp.
Our current design is not very software intensive. No need to co-sim.
- Juan Carlos Diaz of Agere Systems
No, but we should!!!
- Tony Lanier of Harris Corp.
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