( ESNUG 403 Item 3 ) --------------------------------------------- [11/20/02]
From: [ Curious George ]
Subject: Experienced IBM ASIC Customer Wonders About Switching To Toshiba
Hi, John,
Please keep me anon this time.
Right now we are looking at the advantages of working with Toshiba vs. IBM
as an ASIC vendor. We have some experience with IBM, but are being wooed by
the promises of cheaper pricing and support by Toshiba. Toshiba sure sounds
attractive (and I bet they have some pretty dense RAMs, too!) but I am
wondering if it is all smoke and mirrors. The grass always being greener
on the other side. I am sure Toshiba has skeletons as well! I'd like to
ask your readers what these Toshibia skeletons are.
IBM, well let's just say that from week to week they change their mind on
how they would like to support smaller ASIC customers, how they want to
treat us and also how much they want to tell us. With all of the walls
inside Big Blue, I am not sure that they even know how to talk to
themselves, let alone customers. Yet they do have undeniable technical
expertise and if you follow their rigorous process (and sometimes laborious
as well, have you ever comparer Einstimer to PrimeTime? IBM says it takes
one person to drive this one tool full-time for a single project -- and
they are right!!!) they do seem to be able to deliver a functional,
testable ASIC. Another question on IBM is will your support team even be
there next month. Layoffs and job reassignments seem to be the norm over
at IBM. We went through 3-4 major iterations of IBM support personnel on
our last ASIC alone!
Anyway, these are just some of the concerns we have. Overall areas that
I would like to learn more about for both companies in order to compare
them, is to find out about user's experiences in the following areas:
- the real Toshiba price points
- the Toshiba vs. IBM tool issues (standard tools vs. proprietary tools,
ease of use & integration, etc.)
- Toshiba capacity (or lack thereof)
- Toshiba availability (hot lots?)
- the fab cycle time at Toshiba
- process maturity (0.18u, 0.13u and below) for both Toshiba & IBM
- Toshiba handling of testability issues (embedded in the process, or
you do you do it on your own?)
- Toshiba level of support (especially for smaller companies)
- Toshiba vs. IBM issues supporting projects with lower production volumes
- access to Toshiba IP cores (PCI, GbE, processors, etc.)
- access to Toshiba embedded memory and density (SRAM, DRAM, CAM)
- Toshiba communications issues (Japanese language barriers, coordination,
"not my job", etc.)
- quality of local Toshiba support teams
- access to Toshiba technical experts & decision makers within the company
- sharing mask charges for protos (i.e., shuttle service) at Toshiba
As I said, I have some experience with IBM, but by no means have I hit every
boundary condition so I would really like to hear anything that anyone has
experienced with either Toshiba vs. IBM. I also think it would be a really
interesting topic in ESNUG.
- [ Curious George ]
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