( ESNUG 384 Item 6 ) -------------------------------------------- [12/06/01]
Subject: Troubles Mixing Avanti Milkway Databases With Synopsys Databases
From: "Jon Stahl" <jstahl@avici.com>
Hi John,
I think it's obvious that Synopsys now owns the most ubiquitous and stable
set of ASIC tools in the industry. Perhaps even the best in a number of
areas.
What isn't at all obvious (at least to me) is what they will do with them.
Meshing together the Avanti database and their own would be a huge task.
The styles are wildly different. Take a look at how badly the Chip Architect
(IBM DB) and Synopsys DB integration has gone -- it's why there are so many
hierarchy issues with Chip Architect.
Furthermore, the Apollo tools have become dated in a number of ways. And as
you have noticed -- there haven't been a lot of tape-outs (if any?) with the
new Astro stuff yet.
At Avici we have used Avanti for signal and clock routing, but also a number
of other best-in-class point tools in taping out our designs. Power strap
and flip chip re-distribution routing has been done with LSI Logic internal
tools. Simplex for power mesh analysis. Moscape for crosstalk analysis.
Calibre for LVS/DRC. We have used Formality because we own it - I have heard
that Verplex is better. In the past we have had success with ClockWise.
Looking towards the future, we have planned to test many of the newly
available floorplanners, the Plato router, etc. I am also hoping that
Cadence follows through and actually releases source code to the OpenAccess
database. An open database and open APIs (like OLA) that seamlessly connect
best-in-class EDA tools are what tool users need to be most productive.
I don't care if the tools all come from the same company or not.
- Jon Stahl
Avici
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Hi John,
Please do not publish my name. I use tools from both vendors almost daily.
The Good News:
1 The Milkyway Suite of tools will finally have serious technical help.
2 The Milkyway Suite bugs will disappear.
3 The back-end integration will be tighter.
The Bad News:
1 We will probably have to pay a lot more for the Milkyway since
Synopsys now owns tools for the the entire ASIC flow.
For me this is mixed news.
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From: "Rafy Diaz" <rafyd@ti.com>
Hello John,
If Synopsys PhysOpt becomes part of the Avanti tools suit, and the tools
depart from the MilkyWay db, I see great hope as a TI end-user.
- Rafy Diaz
Texas Instruments
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Pls keep me anonymous if any quote you'd like to use.
I hope SNPS and CDN will open their databases and define public (free and
non-proprietary database and file formats) so that users still have freedom
to hack and get design done. This is the only good thing to users since
SNPS can define the format itself w/o asking others "if SNPS is willing to
make it open/free to other venders".
I guess lots of talented developers will still leave and make better tools.
I should have kept my $3 AVNT stock longer. :-( And congrats to merge SNPS
and AVNT user groups.
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